Paul Burucelli
ANNOTATIONS
TRANSCRIPT
Interview conducted by Kristine Villanueva
New Brunswick, New Jersey
Interview conducted in 2018
Transcription by Kether Tomkins
00:00
This is as quiet as it’s gonna get.
Yep, so.. take it or leave it. Awesome. So I guess I can start off with, um, can you just say your full name, your age and where we are right now?
Um, my name is Paul Michael Bariselli, this is Elijah’s Promise in New Brunswick, New Jersey.
Awesome. Um, and the first time we talked, I think you mentioned you were originally from New Jersey?
Yeah, I was. I grew up in Iselin, New Jersey.
Oh okay, what was it like growing up in Iselin?
Um, growing up in the 70s in Iselin was, I dunno, sex, drugs and rock’n’roll [laughs].
So you were into the scene in Iselin, there was a scene in Iselin?
Oh, you know, I always wanted to be a gangster, so.
Um, and how did that influence you growing up?
Ended up in prison.
Can you tell me a little bit about that?
Well, you know, my father was a rough man, you know. I've come to discover that, you know, domestic violence, you know, travels in cycles, so I'm pretty sure that’s the way he was brought up, you know, so. He probably knew- didn’t know any better, you know.
00:01:12
And he was rough and I pushed back and you know, and caused a lot of trouble and ended up in juvenile [laughs].
How was he rough?
You know, I used to get beat a lot [laughs]. You know.
And was there one particular instance that landed you in juvie?
You know, I was a criminal, so, when you do bad, you end up in jail.
What kind of things were you doing?
I got arrested for, uh, doing burglaries, burnt somebody’s house down.
Yeah?
Yeah.
Can you tell me a little about that, too?
You know, I did a lot of drugs. So, we were, um, breaking into people’s houses to support our drug habit. We were stealing a lot of weapons at the time. Um, sold them to the bikers, we were committing to community service.
00:02:03
They were killing each other with our weapons, um, so that was kind of cool, um, to us, but um, eventually we got caught ‘cause, um, strangely enough the police don’t like you stealing weapons and selling them to the bikers [laughs]. But, um, I did my time and I got out and still didn’t learn, I guess. I don’t know.
Did you develop a drug habit?
Yeah, you know, drugs have been a mainstay in my life, most of my life, until about fifteen years ago. I've been clean for about fifteen years now.
That’s really great.
Huh?
That’s really great.
Yes it is. Things are better now, livin’ the dream, you know. Yeah you know. My supervisor — [unclear] Molina — I guess she saw something in me that no one else really saw. During my homelessness, you know, she told me, you know, go to culinary school and I’ll give you a job.
00:03:00
And you know, I always liked to cook, so you know yeah, I’ll go to culinary school. It was fantastic, you know. Culinary school was the best year of my life. I just had such a great time, I don’t know. I got my job here. I guess sometimes you gotta watch what you wish for [laughs]. Elijah’s Promise never turned their back on me, so here I am. Giving back.
So just so I can understand, like, linearly how things happened, what age did you go to juvie?
Uh, I went to juvenile in 1977, I believe. I only did nine months there though. But that experience got my picture in a mug shot, which, uh, got me convicted of a crime I didn’t commit in 1985.
What was that crime?
Uh, kidnapping and attempted aggravated sexual assault. I did, uh, I would never admit that I did this atrocious crime, cause I didn’t do it, you know. But you know, I fully admit to stuff that I did, but I just didn’t do this crime. Could’ve got out of jail in 7 years but being kind of ignorant, I guess I'm kind of ignorant, and stubborn, I would never admit that I committed this crime, cause I didn’t commit this crime.
00:04:15
I did fifteen years. I got locked up on January 18th 1985, I got out January 2nd 1998, you know. Um, yeah, and uh, you know. Came out, still was looking for an easy way I guess, you know. Till about 2005– 2005, I think. About 2005 I stopped getting high. But I lost a lot of people, you know. Death and despair. But uh, I woke up and my girlfriend was dead in my bed [laughs] and uh, it was a real eye opener, you know. So the very next day, the police kick in the door and said they knew that we were selling drugs. So I went on like a ten month I guess, sabbatical for, all over the United States. They wanted me to help them buy drugs but I wasn’t gonna do that, so I ran away, and uh, toured the United States. When I came back, I became homeless. I was broke. I wasn’t selling drugs anymore and that was how I was supporting myself and uh, I became homeless. Homeless didn’t work for me, [laughs] you know? Um, I slept at the train station one night, and well, [laughs] very next day, I went to, uh I went to, uh I went down to welfare, I asked the lady and they told me they couldn’t help me, right. I says, you know, I wasn’t threatening her or anything, I just asked her if she could get me locked back up again. I was doing much better in prison and uh, she said “What? [Laughs] You’d rather go back to prison than, you know be on the street?” and I was like, “I was doing much better in prison and I just, you know, I can’t do it.”
00:06:11
They put me in the shelter over here and I stayed there for a year. During that time I went to culinary school, like I told you, and uh, strangely enough they were gonna kick me out of the hotel the week before I was gonna graduate. [Laughs]
Why was that?
I guess my time came up, you know you only get so much time with temporary rental assistance and such. Around the same time, there used to be the executive director, her name was Lisanne Feinstein, awesome lady, she helped me get housing. So I been living in a house ever since, you know.
Awesome. So you— um, when you first went to get assistance, did you qualify for anything?
Oh yeah I was homeless, you know. I guess they just didn’t want to help me, you know. I don’t know. I don’t remember exactly how that went down, it all worked out. I met some really cool people along the way.
What was it like, like day to day? Living homeless.
00:07:17
Oh you know. Pretty much– I dunno, I had a path by then, it was cool cause I knew exactly what I was gonna do. I planned everything up to this point. I’m stuck right now, [laughs] I don’t know what I'm gonna do next, but um— time that I'm gonna have to move forward again, you know. Never back. Been going forward ever since.
What was it like being in culinary school?
Culinary school was awesome, I really like to cook. Good times.
What sparked your interest in culinary?
Uh, my mother couldn’t cook. [Laughs] I like to eat. I know I'm skinny, but I like to eat. My mother could bake really good, but she could never cook. You know so, I've always cooked. and I've found that if you go to a party, like a barbecue or something, if you operate the barbecue, you actually get to eat [laughs].
What’s your favorite dish to cook?
Um that’s - everybody asks me that. I guess Italian, I make good sauce. I really like hamburgers, you know, I like simple food. I guess you would call it comfort food.
And then how did you land your current job here?
I told you, Ms. Molina. Ms. Molina told me if I graduated culinary school, she would get me a job, so I did, I got a job. I was working down in the kitchen for a while but my culinary degree, it actually got me a job in social services. I work social services now.
How did you meet Ms. Molina?
Um, from coming here. This the only place in town to eat, like if you’re homeless and you need to eat. This the only place you can come and eat.
What’s it like working social services? Do you like it?
00:09:00
Um, I like it a lot, yeah. I get to help people. I got like, got to help thirty-eight people off the street last year into permanent housing, so it’s kind of a rush, it’s my new drug. Um yeah, makes me feel good at the end of the day ‘cause I used to be a completely different person.
Um, in what ways I guess. I know, I know it’s obvious how it’s different from back then than it is now, but I guess, how have you changed internally from back then to now?
Well you know, I care about myself. [Laughs] I do, I didn’t care about myself back then, so you know, that’s where everybody else stood too. You don’t care about yourself, then you don’t care about anybody else. You know, I used to sell poison to children. I used to, you know, I didn’t care. I just wanted to make money. Now I’d rather be broke.
Um, do you identify with the people that you’re helping?
Sure, I used to run with them. [Laughs] You know, they’re all my peers. Well, they were my peers, I guess. Y’all are my peers now, but you know, they used to be. I can - I get to walk between both worlds actually, so I can go anywhere and I'm accepted everywhere. It’s kind of cool.
Um, does that help your job?
Absolutely.
In what ways?
Can’t get done if you can’t communicate with the people. And uh, lot of the people that live down the river there don’t see these people as somebody that they can communicate with, you know so. I'm a buffer.
Can you give me an example of when, um, well, your experience helped you communicate with someone you were helping?
Well, like I said, I helped get— I helped get thirty-eight people off the street last year. Um, lot of the people that worked with them, the case workers, wouldn’t be able to reach them without me, you know. They get them - I break them down and I bring them to them, and we help them with their specific problems and get them cleaned up and try to get them houses. It’s good stuff.
Um–
00:11:10
Lot of people, they don’t know them, they know me. “Oh, you know anybody over at Elijah's promise?” “Oh, I know Paul.” [Laughs] Okay, so they’ll send Paul out to go get ‘em, you know.
What are your current financial struggles?
I'm broke all the time, cause I don’t really get paid here that much and uh, you know, gotta pay rent and I got car payments and insurance. Same struggles everybody else has.
Where are you living right now?
I live in, uh New Brunswick.
And how much are you paying for rent?
Um, well, my house is owned by the Affordable - Affordable Housing Act, it’s um, the Second Reformed Church of Highland Park, so they don’t pay as much as everybody else — enough to move and have a real apartment. [Laughs] Apartments in New Brunswick are about twelve- twelve hundred dollars a month. Mine is - my rent is much less.
And then, you said you have health insurance-
Through work.
Um, and your car? Which is a lot— is that a lot too?
My car?
Mhmm.
You know. no it’s a— I gotta 2008 Chrysler 300. It’s alright. I'm looking to get rid of it if you know anybody wants to buy it. I have a side business I've started, I cut grass on the side. I really need a pick up truck, so I'm working on that right now. That’s my future goals.
Oh cool. I was going to move into that. So what does that future look like for you?
Um right now, it’s undetermined, you know. I'm a work in progress, I guess you would say. Um you know, but I'm trying. I don’t really sleep much. Well, I sleep a lot but gotta move forward.
00:12:55
Really wanna get out of where I live right now. I'm not digging it anymore.
Why is that?
Well at 58 years old, I think it’s time for me to live by myself. I live with some questionable roommates.
Oh I see, so is it like, a shared housing situation?
I share a house with three other guys, there’s four of us in a house.
Uh, is it hard to save?
Save money? Well you have to make enough to save. After I pay all my bills I have, not really a lot, you know, so it’s a struggle.
So you would say that housing is your number one.
Housing, yeah over the last, let me see, I've been living there seven years now I think, so I've acquired a lot of stuff (laughs) and like I said I’m trying to start this business on the side so I have my equipment too, I couldn’t really move into an apartment because I’d have no place to put my stuff. I’d be renting an apartment and I’d have to rent a storage facility. And that would be even more money so.
What’s your side business? With cars?
00:14:04
No, I cut grass. I cut grass on the side. About 15 clients right now, in these two buildings.
And is that - is that um, going to be part of your future plan?
I sure hope so. Cause um, yeah.
How did that start?
I dunno, I guess I've always cut grass, when I was a kid I cut grass and I was - it’s kind of enjoyable to me, I like to cut grass. I like when I go to someone’s house and it’s yucky and then, you make it look nice. “I did that.” [Laughs].
Do you have any family?
No. They’re all dead.
Um, is there anything else that you can expand on for your story, is there something that I haven't really flushed out?
I don't think there is. Takes a long time, you know. I think I always dealt with mental illness, but back when I was a kid, no one knew what the hell it was. You know, so what the hell is bipolar? You know, but–
Were you diagnosed with bipolar?
00:15:10
I'm bipolar, have depression, PTSD, got issues.
How were you dealing with those before you had health insurance?
I was self medicating, I never knew I had it until I went to this place and got diagnosed and “oh shit, that’s why I'm like that?” I go through - I've had some really serious mood swings, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I'm much better now.
Do you have any issues paying for mediation?
I don't do any medication anymore.
Oh okay.
I don't like it and– I did drugs for so long and I was hooked and it seems like every time you do to the doctor, they want to give you more drugs, and it’s like, listen. I don’t think so.
Did you ever have to go through recovery?
00:16:11
Um, I tried NA and AA, it didn’t really work for me. I'm not really religious, as soon as you start throwing god at me, I just- it shuts me down. I didn’t want to get high anymore, I just stopped.
Just cold turkey?
Pretty much.
What was that like?
Uh, different. When I woke up and Christine was dead, it was really an eye opener. When you’re doing drugs, there’s really only two ways it can go. I'm never going back to prison, and I really don’t want to die, so there’s no alternatives.
Christine was your girlfriend, right?
Yeah.
How did she pass away?
I believe she OD’d. We were, um, I had her in a program, and she was doing really good, but I was also building a house. I was building a house, and um, I had to go see my contractor, and I came home, and uh, she was snoring in bed.
00:17:10
I was watching her for a while, you know, so I got in bed and I went to sleep and, uh, I woke up sometime in the middle of the night and, uh, dry throat and I tried to wake her up, and she was cold, you know, so–
I can’t imagine what that would have been like.
It was fucked up. [Laughs] So. Yes.
Um. Did that, um, I guess, change your persp—
Triggered me for a little while, you know, I slipped, and um, you know, but I caught myself and yeah. Life goes on.
Did that change your perspective of how you wanted to change your life?
It did. I didn’t wanna die. I didn’t wanna go to jail. Yes. Opened my eyes. I got tired of seeing people die. I lost so many people.
00:18:10
I guess that comes with the territory?
Yeah. Well yeah, yeah. I made a lot of bad choices in my life. But I'm better now. I'm doing a lot better. I'm doing really good. People ask me how I'm doing, I say, I'm living the dream, and they think I'm being like a smart ass. I kinda am, you know? I might get to live [laughs].
Is there anything else that I need to know?
I don’t think so. What do you want to know?
Um, I guess like, basically more details about.. I understand how your past influences where you are now, but kind of, a little bit more about, I guess what the struggle is like, not being able to, I guess—
I don't really understand what you mean by what’s the struggle, there’s not really a struggle. I struggle— just like everybody else does. I have two jobs, I'm trying to pay all my bills and you know, save money and better myself, just like everybody else. (Laughs)
00:19:20
You know. Um, everyday I wake up and know that I can go out and sell drugs and not have to struggle but then you know, comes with consequences.
What are the other two– your other two jobs, again?
I got this job here. I have seven jobs here, you know, I do a lot of things here and then I cut grass on the side, so, those are my two jobs.
I think in an email you said, you also did another job?
No, I just work here. Working here is like working two full time jobs. I do building maintenance, I’m a social worker, I'm a cook, I'm - you know. it’s a non-profit, I do whatever it takes.
So there’s nothing else that I need to know?
Not unless you can think of anything, you have a list over there.
I do, um, but I think I've used it all.
Okay.
Okay, if I have anymore follow ups -
You know where to find me. I'm here five days a week, most of the time. um, if not, just leave me an email, I check them all the time.
Awesome, thank you.
You’re welcome. Thank you.